Education
is now at that point where we are spending more time assessing (via standards
and standardized tests) for a product that is increasingly
outdated. Lichtman,
Do you agree or disagree and why?
All
standards, including the Common Core, are an attempt to ensure this need for
repeatability and explanation. Even if the standards are designed to shift the
balance of learning from content to skills. Lichtman,
Do you agree or disagree
and why?
Respond to one other person on either question.
"Education is now at that point where we are spending more time assessing (via standards and standardized tests) for a product that is increasingly outdated." Lichtman,
ReplyDeleteI don't know that I agree or disagree. I think the manner in which we test is outdated, but the product is not always outdated. We are looking for an assessment of the knowledge students have over particular areas. Standardized testing, as we have discovered, is not an accurate measure of whether or not a student knows the material. Furthermore, the material they are asked to know is either invalid later down the road, or completely useless in their future lives. I think that it is our jobs to discern what is pertinent for our students to know in order to be successful in today's world. What should they learn? Offer anything else that is not a necessity as an extracurricular.
"All standards, including the Common Core, are an attempt to ensure this need for repeatability and explanation. Even if the standards are designed to shift the balance of learning from content to skills." Lichtman
I don't agree that they are looking for repeatability so much as acquisition of knowledge and skills. The goal (down the road) is for students to demonstrate their knowledge using project based methods. That means students can represent their ideas however they see fit, so long as it answers the question or solves a problem. That means that if repeatability is desired, it is only at the request of the teacher.
I’m not sure about Common Core. All students need to demonstrate knowledge, but who determines the knowledge they demonstrate? For special education students, shouldn’t it be the IEP team?
DeleteI agree Jerrie. That's was a specially designed plan that is supposed to be geared toward what the student needs.
DeleteDon't you know Big Brother is determining what knowledge students are being fed----just look at how history in some states are being re-taught to ignore segregation and points about the Civil War so people don't get their feelings hurt, and even some going as far as to say the Holocaust didn't really happen. :(
I agree with you Jerrie the common core is not made for our students and should be a team discussion.
DeleteI’ve taught long enough, I taught before we had standards for accreditation. Library books were counted, the number of certified teachers was recorded as part of the accreditation of a public school. Things needed to change, but I’m not sure standardized testing nor common core standards were the answer to the problem.
ReplyDeleteI do think standardized testing is outdated! Especially in special education, I feel time with students would be better spent working on the student’s particular needs for the future and not addressing a state or national standard. Some of the juniors and seniors I teach need to learn fundamental life skills and they don’t directly relate to standards.
I’m not sure about the Common Core standard ‘fixing’ the assessment issue. When I look at student needs, I think first about skills and knowledge needed for the future, then I try to make them align to Common Core standards.
You make a great point. The IEP should be the ones to determine the standards for students with special needs. Not all of the standards will apply to them beyond the classroom, and many of them require skills that are not a part of the standards. It is interesting to think what we are so ready to adopt in conjunction with what we are unwilling to abandon.
DeleteI agree it doesn't look like the Common Core Standards will make assessments more relevant or result in less testing. It will be interesting to see what everyone thinks after this spring, after the testing is complete.
DeleteI agree Jerri with your point about thinking about skills needed, then finding the standards that fit. Sometimes I worry, when we use the high school standards, we run the risk of "one size fits all" IEP's and can lose the "individualized" part of the IEP.
DeleteIt is my understanding that many IB (International Baccalaureate) students create a portfolio and major project while in high school. Before graduation they present this project to teaching staff. Perhaps a better use of time than all the standardized testing? Also, just this last week the Denver Post had a headline that addressed the Governor was agreeing that there was TOO much testing going on in school and that it might be a good idea to back that down.
ReplyDeleteFor our Special Ed students, the IEP should be the guide to help students learn skills needed in the real world. My functional students need hands on learning and the testing doesn't add to their real world success.
Standardized testing is designed to (in theory) see if students in 9th grade in California are learning the same thing as 9th graders in Florida. Testing often has little to do with the students true knowledge and a lot to do with "how students test" and how many math problems they can complete correctly during a timed exercise. Testing leaves little room for imagination and innovation to solve problems and exhibit skills and knowledge.
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ReplyDeleteEducation is now at that point where we are spending more time assessing (via standards and standardized tests) for a product that is increasingly outdated. Lichtman,
ReplyDeleteI agree with this statement because we are so tied into teaching these standardized tests and standards that teachers are panicking and afraid of school closing down and or teachers losing their jobs. We want our students to do well on these tests so schools can stay open or get more funding. What we really need to be teaching to our students is to have an education and be successful in their life when they leave school. Our kids have lost so much of their use of imagination and creativity they don't know how to think for themselves, become critical thinkers, and problem solvers that teachers have to take the extra time to teach these abilities over and over again.
Tyce, you make some excellent points about the effects of standardized tests on schools. I think you're right - our ultimate goal is to have successful adults who can function in society. That end picture will look vastly different for many of them, and a one-size-fits-all education doesn't help everyone attain that goal.
DeleteI agree that teachers are panicking due to scores possibly being tied to keeping their job. I also agree that students need to be taught life skills to be successful in life.
DeleteI agree that we are spending more time assessing but I do not think it has much to do with Common Core. Assessments have been in school since I can remember. In Texas we took the CAT (California Achievement Test) every year. When I moved to Kansas students here took the ITBS (Iowa Test of Basic Skills). Then NCLB came along and a basic state assessment replaced ITBS. Now with Common Core we are still assessing its just called something different. Actually I think we are assessing more now but not because of the standards but because of our (teachers) evaluations. Teachers, in the Ulysses district, have to have 3 different pieces of data to show student growth. Kepley, where I work, is using MAPS, STAR reading, and the state assessment for their 3 pieces of data. As long as data is going to be the driving force in education I really do not see how we can get away from assessing!
ReplyDeleteI understand the concept of repeatability, I think the author explained it very well on page 205. I do agree with the author that repeatability is and will become very challenging to maintain as long as the rate of change increases. In my, only 16 years of teaching, I have seen a lot of change regarding education and who feels what is best. I think the rate of change is not going to decrease any time soon. Measures of reliability and validity will be more difficult to determine if we do not give certain changes in education time to actually work or not. It seems the "flavor of the month" mentality is actually "the flavor of the week"!
I agree with you that our districts are imposing a lot of testing on students....even down to the preschool level.
DeleteEducation is now at that point where we are spending more time assessing (via standards and standardized tests) for a product that is increasingly outdated. Lichtman,
ReplyDeleteI agree, as per my experience in my district, that a majority of school time is spent assessing. I'm not sure all of the skills are outdated, but there is definitely an overload. I do not feel some of the tests give an accurate measure of student ability due to a timed test. It very much effects the special needs students' scores. I would like to see less testing and those skills measured through project based activities and not just rote memory.
All standards, including the Common Core, are an attempt to ensure this need for repeatability and explanation. Even if the standards are designed to shift the balance of learning from content to skills. Lichtman,
I agree the Common Core Standards are set up for repeatability and explanation. When looking at the standards across grade levels, they are working on the same basic skill but a higher level with each grade.
I agree with you Deanna about Common Core. I do think, however, that sometimes the standards are so very hard for our SpEd kiddos! I am glad, though, that they work on some of the same standards every year. It does give our kiddos a chance to see it again and again.
DeleteI understand the author's point of view with both of his statements. I do believe that we are spending a lot of time assessing students, and that this information is necessary to ensure that all educators are teaching similar standards. I am not sure that all of the assessments are outdated as there must be a foundation/skill level to learning and applying higher level thinking skills. I also think that there needs to be repeatability - or consistency in the education system. The standards are there for a reason...to ensure we are teaching students the content that is developmentally appropriate. In that sense, it is an assembly line of education.
ReplyDeleteIn relation to our SPED students, I think that repeatability and explanation are essential to their learning success. When I am writing lesson plans for students, I find myself getting bored with the same concepts/sounds/skills but I know the repetition and being able to apply those skills is what works for most of our kiddos!
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ReplyDeleteI feel that we spend way too much time assessing students. Some of these assessments are used to guide what is taught in the classroom, which I think is a valid use of assessments and data. I don’t see state assessments utilized in this way to the same extent as other assessments. Student learning should be put at the forefront, and testing them repeatedly doesn’t do that.
ReplyDeleteThe mindset in the book is that our current assessments measure content taught and learned, and the assessments should be changed to measure processes and skills. If we were to change this mindset, our realm of assessments and measures would have to drastically change. I can’t even imagine how these types of tests could be used for accreditation and data. We’ve based so much of education on data and numbers, and changing that would be a complete paradigm shift.
I agree that we are testing way too much. When educators actually sit down and look at results and then tailor their lessons to individual students' needs, that is what should ideally be done. But who has the time or energy to create 25-30 different lessons to make sure what has been missed or is a weak area for each individual student? How many kids have dropped out of school/being home-schooled because they can't stand being tested all the time. Plus, in the real world with a real job, the correct answer isn't always ABCD because of all the factors thrown in (boss, co-worker, expected outcome, etc.)
ReplyDeleteAt this time, I really don't see our American school system changing due to the fact we let everyone in, while other nations do not. If we change to match other countries, many of our students will not be in a classroom learning reading, writing and arithmetic, they will be placed in a system to become worker bees. So in a system like that, there wouldn't be much testing other than if you have the skills towards a particular job you stay on that tract and if not, you are steered somewhere else.
"Education is now at that point where we are spending more time assessing (via standards and standardized tests) for a product that is increasingly outdated." Lichtman,
ReplyDeleteI'd agree that standardized testing as we use it now, even when we use performance assessments, measure skills that will not have the most impact on student's success after high school.
"All standards, including the Common Core, are an attempt to ensure this need for repeatability and explanation. Even if the standards are designed to shift the balance of learning from content to skills." Lichtman
I'd agree, but I also think there are some basic skills, that need to be mastered in elementary school, that will make a child more fluent with the activities of everyday life.
I feel that we are spending a lot time on assessment. With our district the focus is on the assessments on what scores they have. I feel sometimes even for our SAT's that is the focus rather than what their knowledge base is. Sometimes it is a time concern however the skill is there. I have a hard time with understanding the expectations according to assessments. It is testing overload for kindergarten students in my opinion and I am sure for other students as well.
ReplyDeleteI feel that standardized tests are an attempt to micromanage students and teachers and how they are taught and how they learn, yet we are not comparing apples to apples we have a bowl of mixed fruit yet everyone is expected to come out the same. We say we are data driven yet does one truly look at the data and change the way we teach for EVERY student or more for the majority? I feel the same is true of common core. It is made to fit all the apples and oranges of the mixed fruit bowl we have. We are teaching standards that children are not developmentally ready for yet we push through the standards to say we have taught them to move them on to the next grade level. As teachers we all agree that we over test our students and are teaching at too fast of rate or teaching things are kids are not ready to learn and that is not what is best for kids.
ReplyDeleteAmy-
DeleteI agree with your statement about data collection and what actually gets done with it. I’d say more often than not, people go through all the stress and hassle of assessing everything that can be assessed, but then that’s where it stops. Data is collected to say it’s been collected, and then everything goes back to how it was before; good, bad, or indifferent.
Education is now at that point where we are spending more time assessing (via standards and standardized tests) for a product that is increasingly outdated. Lichtman,
ReplyDelete**I tend to agree with this statement. We are spending SO much time assessing our students...even our youngest students. Sometimes students aren't ready to be assessed constantly every day. I'm not so sure that the product is always outdated. The kids are being assessed on important skills that are needed to help them learn life-long skills. I just think that we definitely do it too often!
All standards, including the Common Core, are an attempt to ensure this need for repeatability and explanation. Even if the standards are designed to shift the balance of learning from content to skills. Lichtman,
**I would tend to agree with this too. Repeatability is definitely something that is important for our SpEd kiddos. Common Core, however, is proving to be harder for our students than the original standards were. I think they harder because the content has shifted down through the grades. Younger students are expected to know so much content now.
I totally agree with statement #1 in reference to us spending more time assessing (Whether the product is outdated or not could be debatable though I suppose). It seems like every time I check my email, I’m getting another message about which students are testing what and when and not to bother them. And I’m not upset or anything (I just reread that previous statement, and it sounded very aggressive, haha!), but gosh, those poor kiddos! And teachers! Everyone’s stressed up to their eyeballs! And I’m not suggesting assessments should be totally done away with. I think it’s important to understand what kids know and where they might be struggling, etc., but I just feel like there’s GOT to be a better way of doing it, you know???
ReplyDelete